Going beyond self-care

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Well welcome back and thank you for joining us again. My name is Kelly-Ann Allen if you’re just tuning in now, and with me today I'm very excited to be joined by Azadeh Knopf a Be You Consultant from headspace who has worked as an educator and now supports primary and secondary schools across North Queensland.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Good morning.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

And Nicole Lees is a Be You Consultant from Early Childhood Australia who has worked across Early Learning services in Australia and internationally.

 

Nicole Lees

Thanks Kelly, hello.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

This session is suited to Early Learning service educators and leaders, as well as school teachers and leaders. We will be having a conversation about going beyond self-care and we hope to hear your thoughts along the way. We also hope to hear your tips and questions too. We aim to provide a safe space to discuss and share information around wellbeing and so as a part of that and as a part of creating a virtual space, please consider things like confidentiality and privacy throughout the session particularly when using the chat box.

 

Nicole Lees

OK I’d like to do an Acknowledgement of Country. So, we are located today in Naarm – known as Melbourne as well. We respectfully Acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the Land. The Wurundjeri and the Bunurong Peoples of the Eastern Kulin Nation and pay respect to their Elders past and present and also to Aboriginal Elders of other Communities who may be present today.

At the end of this month, we observe National Sorry Day, and we feel it's important to remember the grief, the suffering and the injustice experienced by the stolen generations and also the intergenerational impacts that are still felt today. Thanks Kelly.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So just to start with, to start us off, what we would like to do is ask you all that have joined us today, “what does self-care actually mean to you”? So, you'll be able to drop your comments in the chat box and we’ll be able to reflect on them when you write them in. While we wait for you to put your responses in, I might throw this question to Az and Nicole over here - What does self-care mean and can I also just add to that, why is it so contentious sometimes?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yes well, I don't know about you Nicole but as a past educator when someone suggested self-care it’s a little bit triggering because it tended to be one-sided. So it's different for everyone I suppose as well, and self-care is for me one aspect of wellbeing.

 

Nicole Lees

Definitely it depends who you ask and what the response will be. If you had of asked me that a few years ago when I was an educator in the service, I probably would have said “oh I think it's taking a bath, drinking a wine and having a cupcake - probably all at the same time”. I don't know the more the better but since then I've learnt a lot and with my studies into wellbeing, I definitely have reframed and look at more like taking care of mental health and my physical health.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah and I think as well, there's there’s multiple ways of conducting self-care that psychological self-care, physical self-care, spiritual self-care, professional self-care as well and we can see some of the, some of the suggestions in the word cloud. There’s … balance seems to be quite a common phrase there, or term.

 

Nicole Lees

And that makes me think about how Julia Gillard mentioned things that you stop doing and I think that was something that changed for me over time was, hold on, so self-care can be stop doing certain things that aren’t helpful and for me, and the person who's writing balance may have a different perception, but I can relate to balancing out, stop doing and to do.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah absolutely.

 

Azadeh Knopf

And perhaps learning to say no. Say, hey I'm at capacity I'm not taking on any more to my workload.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

And maybe even, I often think about this for myself sometimes when I'm feeling overwhelmed. I might start saying no to things that actually do help me feel better and that might mean going out and having a bit of a debrief with friends because I am feeling overwhelmed and at capacity. So, it’s about you know making those decisions around prioritising what works well. They are popping up now, so thank you for dropping your thoughts in, they’re coming in. Sleep is a really big one. I'm no sleep researcher but we, I think it's really well known that sleep is such an important part of our wellbeing and mental health as well.

 

Azadeh Knopf

And I know nature’s a big one for me too and I can see quite a few people have written that as well. Getting out into some greenery or getting by the ocean or any body of water I suppose.

 

Nicole Lees

I’m curious to know, for both of you did you know what things worked for you - was it easy to say oh it’s nature or it’s debriefing with friends or saying no to certain things, or did it take time to learn those things about yourselves?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Well for me, definitely finding what works, and things change. People change, we go through phases, and we might decide that you know right now going to eat a family-sized portion of Red Rooster chips is self-care for me – might not be next week.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

That’s so funny! I remember when I was a school psychologist, my …I would talk a lot about coping strategies and self-care strategies with students that I would see, painting my toenails and having a hot bath was right up there with what made me feel instantly better, but today it’s like spending five minutes sitting in the car before I go inside the house and get bombarded with requests from kids and lost school lunch boxes and uniforms and things like that. That’s my self-care.

 

 

Nicole Lees

I’ve heard of that form of self-care as the transition between things…

 

Azadeh Knopf

Transitions.

 

Nicole Lees

So interesting to hear that one.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Do any others resonate with the two of you that are a popping up? Alone time.

 

Nicole Lees

I think taking time for yourself, alone time, time for myself.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Exercise seems to be quite popular as well, but you know that's also different for every person While some people might consider running a 10K after work as self-care to them, I couldn't think of anything worse. Whereas you know it might be the gym or might be going for a nice walk with a pet or with your loved ones, definitely yeah.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

And we know sleep and exercise are so important but it’s sometimes really hard to find time to do those things. How do you both grapple with that, or you know?

 

Nicole Lees

I remember someone saying, if you feel like you don't have time for it that's when you need it the most. So even just having that message in my mind is like, hold on a second something else that I'm thinking in this moment is the priority it has to be shifted. You know it's hard to do and I don't always get it right.

 

 

Azadeh Knopf

Well we know that if we take that time to care for ourselves and we're going to be prepared for every other aspect in our life, professionally and you know in our personal lives, so I think it's about putting things into perspective as well.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So do you think it’s a bit about, self-discipline might not be the right word but sort of almost like treating it, you know, say if we went to the doctor and we had to get medication for something quite serious, is exercise and time with friends and sleep something that we need to be probably a little bit more stricter about accomplishing just because we know, you know like you taking the 10mg dose of whatever medication the doctor says. Do we need to make it a little bit more, stricter?

 

Nicole Lees

I think so.

 

Azadeh Knopf

I think it depends on the person, like someone might have to schedule that time in, into a diary…

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Cause sometimes it’s hard to do. I’m sure people that are joining us today find it hard to find the time and it becomes a bit of a vicious cycle.

Nicole Lees

Yep, and I think. I have a really great GP who will start the conversation with “how are you feeling mentally?” or “are you getting enough sleep?” So, yeah to see those things come together with the physical and mental health would be fantastic to see people move in that direction more and more.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Absolutely. And you've got a young toddler at home as well. So, you know for those that have little kids at home, I’ve got a six year old and an eight year old, my sleep is still jeopardised by the other people that live in my household.

 

Nicole Lees

And I want to apologise for thinking that I was tired before I had a child. I was wrong.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

I’d like to apologise to all my friends that had children before me too. I really, I probably could’ve stepped up a bit more. Yeah, so terrific. So, I guess that we've talked about you know what does self-care mean to you, really interesting insights, but today we're going a little bit beyond that conversation. Sometimes when we hear about self-care, we think about it sort of at that individual level and you know, and I think thinking about the strategies that contribute to our wellbeing and mental health they are much, much broader than that. There was a study commissioned by Be You, they commissioned Monash University to conduct, actually with my colleagues at the School of Educational Psychology and Counselling, and that study was led by Professor Andrea Reupert and they found or highlighted through their research, that there are many strategies for wellbeing provided to educators, educators in diverse sectors but these tended to focus on the individual. So, what we want to do now is sort of step back a little bit and talk about what else is out there in terms of what can contribute to our mental health and wellbeing beyond self-care. So, let's do another poll to the audience. What are the biggest challenges educators face today in terms of managing their wellbeing?

What are, can we guess? Like maybe we'll turn this into a bit of Jeopardy while we're waiting for the responses to come in.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah, I think we've populated some suggestions. I don't know about you Nicole, but I was working obviously in primary school settings and my challenges that I found I faced, and my colleagues faced might be different from early childhood.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah, I was wondering that what you would say here as well and having thought about it, it would depend probably what time of year you asked me perhaps, because workload you know for example if we're looking at “transition to school statements”, workload would be right up there.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Report times too.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah, it’s all similar kind of context.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

The context and settings matter. Yeah, I’ve always thought about the differences and for some reason I think about the desk. So, like in a primary school for instance if you're a primary school educator you might have a desk in the classroom, which sounds like you know really that you can have your things and a place to put your belongings but early childhood you don't necessarily have that and in secondary education you might be off somewhere else and I think about how that might, you know be a challenge in terms of being able to have that time.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Can see some of the results of the poll. 39 precent of the vote saying workload, that seems to be heavily weighted there. Increasingly complex behaviours yep definitely and then the third highest is pressures for achievement data.

 

Nicole Lees

And what you said in your presentation previous to this, really intrigued me about workload and expectations and the impact on belonging um…yeah, I hadn't necessarily yeah made those connections.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, absolutely. We're also seeing you know there's a lot of work going on. There’s a government priority around complex behaviours as well and support and that can be an added pressure managing that behaviour but also managing parents as well. Have you sort of had some experience at sort of managing the parents of students that might have complex behaviours but that's not the end of the story right. It's the other parents who have the children in the same classes where the complex behaviours are happening, it's, you can't sort of separate.

 

Nicole Lees

Well in my personal experience, and I can't speak on behalf of others, but something that really, really supported with this situation was having leadership support before and after having conversations, opportunities to talk things through, knowing that I wasn't you know alone in supporting complex behaviours. I don't know if it's how you feel about it?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah for sure, that support from leadership but also perhaps having some sort of communication policy was helpful in my experience as well. What's appropriate, what's not appropriate yeah and obviously checking things by leadership and having them present for specific meetings. Yeah, yep.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

One thing I hear about sort of in the parent community, is sometimes when there's been an incident and it's been related to another student and this is probably where my role as school psychologist, when I was a school psychologist, and now parent I've got a sort of a foot in both camps, but you know one thing that I had noticed is that you know from a school perspective you want to protect the confidentiality and privacy around this family and what's going on for them and, but sometimes there's a bit of pressure for other parents to know that something is actually happening and so that in itself becomes another stress or pressure or burden as well.

 

Azadeh Knopf

It's a really multi-layered environment isn't it.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, absolutely. Just having a look at your responses. Have any more popped up. Sense of belonging with colleagues, we know that’s really important to our mental health and wellbeing but sometimes that might present as also a bit of an obstacle too. I've heard, you know, through my time specialist teachers or people coming into school settings that might not be there all the time, feeling like awkward in the staff room and that can be like a sense of stress.

Azadeh Knopf

Yes definitely, or if there's staff members that’ve been you know established in a school or workplace for a long time and new staff coming in they can sometimes feel out of place and not particularly welcome, you know specially in sometimes rural or remote communities as another layer of complexity.

Nicole Lees

And it's probably similar in schools but in early learning, I feel that we do really well with inclusion and belonging and and making children and families feel really welcome and yeah, I don't know that we always prioritise it for ourselves as educators

 

Azadeh Knopf

That’s right.

 

Nicole Lees

In our teams.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, so just touching on the early childhood and I think about the days when I started off in early childhood. There wasn't the staff room in the settings that I worked in, there wasn't the opportunities to socialise and connect and feel a sense of belonging with your colleagues, and maybe in the data that I presented earlier what that, maybe that's why early childhood educators have the lowest sense of belonging. But how did you, how were you able to overcome that? Like are there…

 

Nicole Lees

With like the relationship in connecting.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah connecting with others.

 

 

Nicole Lees

I think it's still an ongoing challenge, you know it's very, not all settings are able to have time where it's just the team or just the adults, and a lot of places will have all different shift times. So, I think some of the services that have told me, some of the examples they have shared with me that I found really positive, for example, one service has written in a time permanently on their agenda for team connecting, because they realised how important it was and they said, well this should be prioritised as much as some of the administrative information is. So, they would set aside, I think they had about 10 or 15 minutes of either an activity to connect, or if there were discussions that were still going on they wouldn't interrupt. So yeah, I think it takes a bit of creativity, yeah, we know and as you said you can't force people to belong so we can't say everyone we're going bowling, see you at 7 pm You know it's, it takes a bit more bit of creativity trial and error there. I do hope that there are staff rooms now. I'm surprised to hear that some places may not have the structure for it, but another really positive example, I had this last week actually, an educator was really proud of the environment they’d setup. So, they did have a separate staff room and they were really intentional about not having learning material and, and reflective work practise kind of

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Like a calm corner.

 

 

 

Nicole Lees

Yes, the lunch space was like a calm corner. They even thought about the lighting and things like that, and yes so being able to separate, this is my break now from and in the past, I admit that I’d put reflections in because we didn't have other times to do it, so I put a little whiteboard in there. I think back on that I think that wasn't the space for it, so I would reconsider things like that for sure.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, sometimes we know what contributes or makes us feel better, but we don't we're not always implementing them are we? Or we’re not.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah.

 

Azadeh Knopf

I think that's when transitions are really important. Transitioning between different roles throughout the day like this is my you know, my work persona and now I'm going on break and I'm going to transition to that person and not worry about work right now. It's so difficult to do but so necessary for our self-preservation.

 

Nicole Lees

Yep, yep.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

I worked with an academic at Monash University, I won't name names but he did go to the Age, he was interviewed for the Age and during lockdown, with transition right on his mind and wanting to you know realising that he was struggling with that transition between work and home. What he would do is hop in the car and drive around the block and then come home If my husband did that I would be so cross, I’d be like just come and help me with the kids. But that’s what he did. Alright, so we can go onto some questions. I'm just going to click back, go back to our questions that I will throw to Az and Nicole. What are some of the most effective strategies that early childhood settings or educators can use to promote teacher, educator wellbeing beyond self-care strategies?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Well I think you know, we I think we just discussed some based on the results of the poll but something that was, you know, brought up in that Monash University research was that you know yep, individual self-care practises are necessary but we can also include things like creating a positive workplace culture and also leaders leading the way. So, for me the culture’s everything and once you get the culture right, a lot of things can flow on from there. So that might be, you know, involving staff in wellbeing planning. You know, having that staff buy-in and having that input, perhaps taking a survey of the work environment first and planning together. You know that's, that's a really positive process to consider as well as a strategy.

 

Nicole Lees

And do you have services that use like the Be You surveys for example.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah, yeah. So, at Be You we can work with schools to be able to utilise our educators survey, and from there Action Plan. So, look at you know some of the results from the survey from feedback from educators, and work from there. So what are some goals and yeah, we work alongside schools to do that. Yeah.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, are you saying that forcing staff to do mindfulness training might not be the solution?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Look, it sounds like running a 10k to me, so.

 

Nicole Lees

It’s not for everyone.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah, not for everyone. Mindfulness can work beautifully for some people but yeah.

 

Nicole Lees

There’s research behind it, yes, However, it’s yes it’s not everyone’s strategy, yeah.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Or mindfulness can look different for every person.

 

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

individual differences. So, how do you, like. I’ve worked in schools but I haven’t had that experience of being an educator but one thing I’ve noticed, and I don't know if it's common with the educational settings, is that there is that kind of blanket PD sometimes everybody participates in it. How does that fit in with meeting individual needs? And maybe, or maybe this is too contentious. Sorry.

 

Nicole Lees

Yea well, I think it would depend where, what was the process before having that PD? How did you get to that PD? What’s the purpose? Because like you’ve said, the engagement with the team is so important and yes self-care is some of it and we look at protective factors and there's some information on that on our website. So, yes we can do our best to ensure our protective factors are as strong as they can be but yeah like you say, we need deeper things that are embedded in our systems, our processes, our policies

 

Azadeh Knopf

A whole setting approach.

 

Nicole Lees

Yes. So if, if you've done a lot of work and you’re all really clear on your vision and, I think you spoke about educator, or the feelings of self-efficacy and that came up in the study as well, how important that is for our job satisfaction and our wellbeing. Then it makes sense for everybody to be included in in building that and yeah if you eventually get to, long story short, we really need more professional learning on such-and-such, then potentially.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah. Sorry, that was a bit of a curve ball question.

 

Nicole Lees

Putting us on the spot Kelly.

 

 

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

I know. So, we’ve talked about creating a culture of wellbeing and you’ve both have given some examples. You know at the moment I have been so impressed; I don't know if you’ve been across all the stuff that's happening around AI and like technology advances, I feel like we’re in a different world today than we were even three, four, five months ago. But what role can technology play in promoting educator wellbeing beyond self-care practises?

 

Nicole Lees

I'm happy to. Well, I’ve got an example I’d like to share. With the early learning services we have the opportunity to join connected communities online and I think a lot of us became more comfortable with this with COVID, sorry I said the word.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

We might be able to beep it out!

 

Nicole Lees

We can beep it out later? And they’ve actually been running for a few years now, I only just realised this when I was reflecting on it, and there one I will share about in particular. It was an educator who came forward saying, “I'm really missing the network I used to have.” At the time they were a small standalone kindergarten and they weren't seeing that as much in their context and so missed people with a similar context to connect with on an ongoing basis, and so yeah we found some others across Australia, so, from three different states and we've been coming together as a community for a few years. I think probably three or four times a year, depends on availability. Yeah, they shared that they have similar strengths and similar challenges and even though some of their roles have evolved a bit the connections, the relationships there and I believe they enjoy it as much as Consultants do, as far as I know the feedback’s been really good and I know that they connect outside of that as well. So, that's something that technology has made possible. Yep.

 

Azadeh Knopf

That’s awesome, having a support network or a learning network that’s wonderful.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

To connect, it’s like music to my ears as a belonging researcher.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah well, cause we have a quite a few different, whether it’s for a certain setting or a certain role or a certain interest, yeah we have those available. Yeah belonging.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, do you think COVID has made things more inclusive in respect to you know allowing people opportunities that didn't exist to be able to participate in these things different, reaching a different?

 

Nicole Lees

I would say yes and no. I think we still need to be mindful of the limitations with technology. Accessibility is a big thing that I think a lot of work may need to be done in. Not my area so I’m not going to go any further into the tech, the accessibility with technology.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Gee, we take it for granted don’t we.

 

 

Nicole Lees

So, there’s definitely pros and still considerations to be made.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yep. From my side technology can play a massive role with supporting educators particularly with our role as Consultants. You know, a lot of our support can be delivered online and a lot of our resources are all freely accessible, including the Educator Wellbeing Guide: Beyond self-care. So, yeah and I suppose of course we also have a lot of access to professional learning and that can develop our capacity but you know sometimes we might not have the capacity to be released for that professional development. So, it can be a bit tricky of course, so yes it can promote educator wellbeing practices through PD but then you've also got the other side of, it's hard to access or be able to have time to take part in PD.

 

Nicole Lees

And I guess, yeah on that, it's a lot about things. You make your way through it when you have that time and for early learning services, for the all the different roles I had, we rarely had allocated PD time together. Where as we know it’s important to come together at some point where you can but yeah you can make your way through something solo at first if you want to.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah, and I think that also comes back to the whole setting approach and leaders of schools deciding, hey we're going we're going to work on wellbeing, you know we're going to have staff take part in that in that co-design process of, what are some things we need? It might be professional development, it might be you know making some changes around the school environment, so yeah leaders have to be on board I suppose, yeah.

 

Nicole Lees

Yep. I wanted to know thoughts as well on social media and how, you knowit, positive and negative impacts for our sector.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Oh yeah. Sometimes news or media can portray teachers a certain way, or educators a certain way and I think that’s problematic for sure, but you know we, we can decide to focus on it or ignore that sort of stuff because negative media generally sells doesn't it, so.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

We have been seeing that in, in research from Monash University as well. That one of the challenges that teachers reported in a recent survey was that they didn't feel that there was respect there.

Azadeh Knopf

From the general community, yeah for sure.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, and the media, what's reported has a big role to play.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah. So, all in all social media, problematic.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Social media is problematic. What about when, social media as a tool for wellbeing at an individual level. Like in terms of being, it being a source of PD, bespoke PD, sharing of resources and a tool to connect with others, a tool for social support. Like for teachers and teaching communities there’s Tik Tok communities, there’s Twitter communities,

 

Azadeh Knopf

Instagram, Pinterest.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Instagram, Pinterest. Have you seen any benefits associated with social media by dipping in? Do you have time to scroll at night?

Nicole Lees

Do I have time? Not necessarily. Yeah, Pinterest I definitely use Pinterest a lot to support yeah, my learning program. I definitely thought I had to tread carefully in those spaces because I’d become overwhelmed with “look what someone else is doing and oh they said that this worked perfectly.” And yean, I think treading carefully in that space. Go with your wits.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

What about you Az, have you been you done any Tik Toks lately?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Oh no, I'm not on the Tik Toks.

 

Nicole Lees

We won’t be posting that in the comments, your Tik Tok account.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

I’ve got a Tik Tok account but I haven’t really been brave enough to use it. It's like definitely something I would like to do, as part of my professional development but I do love how Az calls it the Tik Toks. And I think that’s funny. And I just cannot move on from this question unless I mention Chat GPT. I've been calling it Chat gtp, which is a bit embarrassing but somebody said think of it like as a personal trainer. Have you come across this? Have you used it all in in in your work? Or have you been, had a chance to see how it can be used as a life hack or have you just not quite arrived there yet? Like lots of people

 

Azadeh Knopf

Not quite there.

Nicole Lees

 

Yeah, I’ve heard school teacher friends talk about it but they are both in secondary so I'm not sure if, yeah people watching may have had more experience with those discussions or.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

I’ve had a chance to dive in and I’m actually writing a bit of a book chapter on wellbeing education and using AI and it has been, what we did, is we used it to create some strategies and lesson plans and providing the prompt is right, the results are really incredible. So, as someone, I have, I can't profess to be an expert in AI and I'm not, I’m a belonging researcher, but I do think unless you're getting your head around it you're doing yourself a bit of a disservice as a bit of a life hack and I know there's ethics and concerns that we do need to be aware of and we need to make professional judgements but you know in terms of creating some, like basic communications towards people, responding to emails, ideas, idea generator or even like as a coach, like is this is a good idea or has this thing been done before? It can be a really useful tool in that respect.

 

Nicole Lees

OK.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, now that I've said that, now that we’ve talked about AI we can move on. How, OK, This is a really good one. How can we involve educators a bit more, build on their autonomy, in designing and implementing programs that promote their wellbeing to ensure that their needs are actually being met, and they’ll link to the strategies that work for them? How can we get them more involved in a way that doesn’t involve more work?

 

Azadeh Knopf

Workload. I think this kind of builds on what we were talking about earlier with you know whole setting approach and just the school deciding and leadership deciding hey this is a priority, and we're going to work on it together and we're going to put aside the normal time we would have for other things, put some of that time until it as well so it's not adding to the workload of educators, you know. And we were talking about having that staff buy-in, to understand that hey this is important, we want to be happy at work, we want to be doing our best with our children and young people and working on action planning together, deciding where the deficits are in the work environment and in the culture of the workplace and yeah goal-setting together and following through with those goals.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, not necessarily making another meeting is what you're saying,

 

Azadeh Knopf

No.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

But embedding it into.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Embedding it 100 percent.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Into what's happening already.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah, it needs to be in ongoing opportunities. Time se, yep and I don't think there's any shame in, if it's not something, because almost 20 years ago, I do have a bachelor's degree in business but when I

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Oh do you?

 

Nicole Lees

We've had discussions about co-design in my workplace quite recently and I think that the theory that's available now, and I've just had a quick look through and planned to go bit more into it, yeah it’s a whole important thing to unpack. Just to support leaders to see how it could look for them, there maybe it might be necessary to do a bit more learning at the leadership level to support that to be on-going and embedded, and like we've said before when you've got strengths and interests of educators, yeah we're more likely to have that job satisfaction and people yeah, feeling good about the role they are playing. So, really it benefits everybody and yeah having systems in place, can't, from the study was just such an important element of their findings.

Azadeh Knopf

I think it comes back to what we were, what the conference open discussing with Julia Gillard, purpose. What's the purpose behind it? What's our why, you know and that might help with buy in as well.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, absolutely and the other thing I was thinking of as you were talking about your business, did you say business, degree oh my goodness you’re so impressvive.

 

Nicole Lees

It was a long time ago, long time ago.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Was that, you know, drawing from other disciplines and other industries and what are they are doing because one of the things that I have yoinked from organisational psychology, is that, I'm using it as a bit of a research strategy but it's also like a technique that can be used for organisational change, and it's called an appreciative enquiry and the reason why I love that; have you heard of it?

 

Nicole Lees

No, have I? I'll get in trouble with the managers, I'm pretty sure we may have been talking about this recently.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

And it’s basically just in a nutshell, a strengths based approach where you know you take this question around educators could be more involved in the design, it's asking them what is actually working well? So, rather than coming in on the question, what's going wrong with the school or educational setting,

 

Azadeh Knopf

What’s gone well and what’s something we want to work on.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, what’s working, yeah. And what could we dream or imagine could be improved and then the appreciative enquiry cycle goes into like a design and implementation, and you can go around in circles because sometimes we might come up with strategies and implement them and they don’t work. So we need to go back.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Reflect.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah.

 

Azadeh Knopf

It's an ongoing cycle, it's not just so you know, I think we have to remember as well it's not a band-aid option, oh our staff aren’t happy here, quick let's put a yoga class on once a month.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yes.

 

 

Nicole Lees

And we looked at the poll, workload, you know some yoga won’t.

 

Azadeh Knopf

It’s not gonna deal with it.

 

Nicole Lees

Won't deal with workload and I think that's where that, you need to look at the onus on educators, educators can't necessarily make those changes or decisions and they can work towards it and be a part of it but yeah something that really needs leadership and structural change.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Yeah, definitely.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, and I certainly, anyone that's tuning in that has had that experience where they've had the workload pressure and they've just you know, it might have been day one after the school holidays and they just need to get into the classroom and set up, and they’ve been you know on a mindfulness PD or you they’ve been stuck doing something that's doing everything but reducing their workload.

 

 

Azadeh Knopf and Nicole Lees

Yeah.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

You know I certainly can empathise and feel for you there. So, ok so, in terms of we may have the best ideas and we might implement them but sometimes there's hurdles and barriers that are in our way, how can we ensure that educators have access to the resources and support they need to maintain their wellbeing, even if they face these challenges and obstacles?

 

Nicole Lees

First and foremost, knowing what's available. Geri shared a poster that we have for example, and yeah getting the word out there, and EAPs if they exist, letting people know, if you are in like a role where you do focus on this or support others with this knowledge, yeah if you know what's out there for your context or your community that's most suitable, I would say have it in regular discussions have it accessible, think about how it's being shared or presented; email, online.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

It’s easy to forget though, isn’t it?

 

Azadeh Knopf and Nicole Lees

Yep.

 

Nicole Lees

So, yeah just putting a poster up, you may not even notice that there were hundreds of posters in my, some of my services, so yes again it’s what comes before it and what is it a part of? I do have a really good example of not just one but a few services, have started to make a really they’ve taken a really intentional approach, where they have two to three different formats, collected the information and resources. So, once, a few services have written a wellbeing plan for their educators and that comes along with also looking, and it was a really, the one I'm thinking of, they really involved everybody it wasn't a, here this is what we've done have a look or give us some feedback. Yeah it was more of a co-design and people got to know that what was available and how to access it and then yeah people who join the team, these things became a part of like inductions or things like that, that were ongoing. And another way that services are starting to do this, is to make like a kind of mental health support plans or yeah what to do, because I know when I was in a service I definitely wasn't trained on mental health, supporting colleagues, it's something which is nice, we talk more about it now and we're seeing and hearing about it more now, but there's still, yeah, we still need to kind of catch up a bit. I mean I speak for myself; I shouldn’t say we. And yeah a lot of us it can help to catch up. So, leaders are putting together learning for themselves as well, so that they can support together as a team and to have confidence to support others and another thing and this was part of the study too, that was often, we, whether we are the educators or leaders, will be the ones that hear a lot of debriefing from others or stress from others, and we may really want to help and really want to fix something for someone because we care, so having like a procedure or a plan in place shows you, well, OK this is where it will need to kind of stop with me, like a boundary, but here are the supports where I can refer if appropriate, here's what is available for other people and just yeah giving people confidence and knowledge.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen and Azadeh Knopf

Yeah.

 

Nicole Lees

Sorry, I went on a bit.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

No, no, no.

 

Nicole Lees

The Nicole Show.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, thanks for coming. Just joking. It's also a bit of a duty of care and ethical responsibility that, it was reminding me, we are kind of, of our colleagues, we could be at the frontline of, they might disclose that something that perhaps needs to be acted on, and we need to be able to support them in a way that’s empathic, maintains their friendship as a colleague, and supports them but also does the right thing for their safety.

 

Azadeh Knopf

For me, I think that's what myself as Be You Consultant is here for as well. Sometimes you know educators are tight on a schedule, they have a lot to do and they might not have the opportunity to search for what they need and for me that's my role to say, what are you struggling with? Great I'll find what I can for you or I'll put you in touch with the right person or people, so yeah I think that's just taking into account how time poor educators might be in and strapped.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah, that’s a good point with the access and resources. Yeah, Consultant’s we're ready and yeah we have that information.

 

Azadeh Knopf

We are the resource.

 

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

So, it’s not necessarily about knowing what the resources are, it's about knowing where to find them.

 

Azadeh Knopf

That's right, yeah.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

And be able to reach out and ask.

 

Nicole Lees

Well said.

 

Azadeh Knopf

We don't want to add to their workload, we want try and help alleviate it if we can.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Such an important message, such an important message. So then, do you know towards wrapping this up, what are some of the potential benefits of promoting teacher wellbeing, beyond self-care for both educators, children, students?

 

 

Nicole Lees

Well, first and foremost educators will have the opportunity to thrive and, yeah be able to fulfil goals.

 

Azadeh Knopf

And stay in the teaching field for longer.

 

Nicole Lees

Job satisfaction.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

We want to keep you, don’t we.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Longevity. Because no one gets into it thinking they're going to hate it.

 

Nicole Lees

Yep.

 

Azadeh Knopf

You get into it thinking you have a passion for this and you love it and you don't want to be burnt out, really you want to be able to stay in the career that you love.

 

Nicole Lees

And for you personally, as well as in your role yep. And I don't have the exact source of information but I know when I was involved in the Monash study, we did look at the workplace benefits, and of course there were things like staff retention that came up, economic benefits, relationships, which and yeah we haven't had a huge opportunity to look at that, but the Monash study really found that significance of supportive, positive supportive relationships with colleagues, but also leadership, because a lot of the educators that shared with us, the educators who felt that they had those strong supportive relationships also felt that they had good mental health or that they are in a mentally healthy culture and on the flip side there was a bit of a pattern with, if they didn't feel they had those strong relationships and they weren't supported, they were more likely to say that they weren't in a mentally healthy workplace. Yes, so relationships are such a positive outcome I would say.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Relationships with the children and the young people too. If the teachers are feeling well, if they’re feeling happy, content, and taken care of in their workplace then the students that they teach are going to benefit as well.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Absolutely. We almost need to, need a way to circulate that Monash study as well the findings.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Well, I think you'd be able to find it quite easily if you went to the…

 

Nicole Lees

It’s on the Monash webpage in the. Well the recommendations from the findings are on the Monash website in the teach space section at the drop down across the top, isn't it?

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yes, but we might also circulate it perhaps the link.

 

Nicole Lees

I’m not sure this, oh that link yeah. The full report, at the moment I don’t think it's publicly available but there is a really good YouTube presentation on the Monash account it's free to access, yes so if you go to the Monash YouTube it's under the beyond self-care section.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Mind you, I’m willing to bet we've got some good Google people.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah somebody’s already found it.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Somebody’s already found it and joined it and we can't see it but that's amazing and thank you if you have done that. Alright, so we probably have some time, like our time is creeping up, it's been amazing to talk to you both.

 

Nicole Lees

Oh we’ll have to accept the questions in the comments and support with those later. We’re out of time.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Absolutely, we are out of time. So, perhaps it’s worth getting people to reflect on you know, what might they take away from today to go beyond self-care.

 

Azadeh Knopf

What are you going to do for your self-care as well. What are you going to walk away from today thinking, something you might stop doing, or something you might start doing?

 

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Yeah, good one Az. So, I guess time is up, time flies when you're having fun. And it's been a joy to share this stage with the both of you. So, on behalf of Az, Nicole, and myself I’d like to thank you all sincerely for attending and wishing you all the best with your wellbeing and self-care.

 

Azadeh Knopf

Thank you.

 

Dr Kelly-Ann Allen

Thank you.

 

Nicole Lees

Yeah, and if anything else comes up please reach out to a Be You Consultant and I believe the virtual booths are running today and tomorrow, so please let people know if we can support in any way.

 

End of transcript.